I have given this a great deal of thought. I'm more pro life then you can imagine. I won't even kill a spider without reason... BUT-
Medical care has advanced a great deal in the last twenty years. People can be kept functional at least in bodily function in ways that were never considered thirty years ago. The Terry Schivo case demonstrates that.
I have friends who have a child who was born without a functional brain. The mother has made a career of taking care of this boy who is now close to 15 years old. Medicaid pays her about sixty thousand a year to keep him alive. He is functionally totally incapable of taking care of himself.
In Chicago there is a hospital in Hinsdale dedicated to keeping alive people on ventilators and electronic stimulation of the heart. They will never emerge alive. They would have been long since dead thirty years ago.
Every day children are born with profound physical problems. Only extraordinary measures saves them. I was at a restaurant recently and a boy about 20 was wheeled in. He was apparently profoundly disabled. His head tilted back, his mouth open. He was not there to eat, it was just an outing. They wheeled him in, ate, and wheeled him out. It was obvious he had no idea where he was or why.
I have two uncles in nursing homes right now. Both in their 90s. I know that for one, he doesn’t even know where he is. Alzheimer’s. Yet, when there was a medical crisis recently he was rushed by ambulance to the hospital and spent several days there at Medicare expense.
He would not have made it thirty years ago. I also have several people I know with downs syndrome children. They are wonderful loving people. So are their adult Downs children.
I don’t know the solution to this. I don’t want to let Obama and his death panels deal with this. BUT, there must be some way we can be humane but not insane. Some of what we call mercy, isn’t.
When my own brother was no longer doing well with severe complications from diabetes, the Doctor told him, you won’t leave here alive, but you might live for a year or two, he made the decision to from that moment on to forgo food, medicine and water. It still took a couple weeks. He died bravely and on his own volition.
I have no solutions. I just wanted to ask the question. Even if we CAN extend life, or at least a life form, should we?
9 comments:
This is a tough one, Gene.
Do we play God by keeping them alive or do we play God by letting them pass away?
I got nothing.
Whatcha got over there?
Bob, I have no idea. I was active and outraged at the whole Terry Schivo thing.
I won't say I was wrong, but I'm struggling to get my hands around this.
Sometimes being a knowitall is hard.
HA.
Gene, What brother was this?
When my own brother was no longer doing well with severe complications from diabetes, the Doctor told him, you won’t leave here alive, but you might live for a year or two, he made the decision to from that moment on to forgo food, medicine and water. It still took a couple weeks. He died bravely and on his own volition.
I was there nearly every weekend with my brother and know for certain that he wanted to live. He wasn't told until a week before he died that he was dying. I was there. I know his reaction. I was there holding him when he died. He would have let them amputate both his arms just to live. I had many talks with him. I had power of attorney and he asked to be revived. I'm glad that I didn't have to make that decision. He was told that he could eat anything. He did. He only stopped eating in the last few days when he was in a coma and couldn't. I have never seen nor witnessed such a will to live in another human being other than my friend that died this past year. John felt that even with no legs, being blind, and the possibility of losing his arms, he still had a great deal to contribute to society. I'm not sure where you got the information in your blog, but it just isn't true. I was there. So was Susie. So were Mom and Dad. We were there nearly every weekend.
Have you read Terri's autopsy?
Not only was she blind but her brain had shrunk to about 1/2 normal size.
One could argue that God had called her and evil Satan doctors were acting against His will.
I do know that end of life has no place in politics. But the proposed end of life consultations are much needed and when it comes time will be much appreciated and certainly soul soothing for those left behind, knowing they acted as their loved one wanted.
It's too bad that Sarah went with the death panel lie.
OK, I stand corrected. To my rememberence he was a couple weeks in the process. I was wrong. I know he planned his funeral. He seemed to be resigned by that act. Sure he wanted to live. I may have read something into the funeral planning.
When Doc told him, "you aren't going to make it" I was of the understanding that he went off foods and medicines other than for palliative (comfort) measures.
I was misinformed.
So, I was telling it as I remembered and understood it. Certainly didn't mean to be insulting. I don't think I demeaned him or his memory. He was one of the bravest men I ever knew.
Even in facing certain death.
Sorry for the misinformation, but the correction doesn't take away from the essence of the medical-theological quandary does it?
I'm torn by all this. I hate the idea of death panels, but I wonder if all we call progress medically is?
Terry Schivo could have been hand fed but her husband intervened and forebade it so this isn't really comparable to living on a vent (which isn't really living but existing).
Its hard to speak on this subject in a large picture kinda way because each one has its own story. I would personally not expect a million dollar transplant when I would prefer to go to the LORD but thats just me.
I took care of my dad the two years before he flew to Jesus and my dad had Alzheimers and Parkinsons. My dad grew tired and was ready to go and we knew it. No extra measures but I was blessed by every minute I had with him no matter his condition.
Gene, I was not offended. I just wanted you to know that you were very wrong. It's not unusual to have a funeral planned years in advance. Many people do it to make it easier for the family when the time does come. John was just a realist and was prepared.
One just never knows what is really going on inside the person with challenges. How do you know that that child in the wheelchair had no knowledge of where he was? You don't know.
I know this subject is a tough one, but I am not about to play God. Without the medical advances, many of us wouldn't still be here. Who decides who is aware enough to still live and receive medical help? I just wanted to let you know how it really was with John. Nothing of John's last weeks was what you thought.
I must tell you of his last days so you know. It's just very important for me to do this. John never quit and gave up. He wanted to live. He would have accepted any lot in life to continue living.
Mom and Dad were exhausted and knew time wasn't long. I left school at 2:30, stopped in Ellendale and picked up clothes for Mom and Dad for a funeral. Then I drove to Pierre. Susie drove from Omaha.
Dad just cried and melted when I got there. They were so relieved to have someone else take over. John had been in a coma for 2 days. There was no response. They said that he was blind. He just lay there and gave no indication of any knowledge of what was going on.
That evening, all his friends gathered in his room. They were all his close friends and his doctor. We all sat around talking and laughing and telling "John" stories and the fun we all had with him.
Then, Carrie, his nurse, asked if I knew where the tape was of John, Susie, Barbie, and me singing in his church. We did that every time we went to visit. I said I thought I knew where it was and drove over to Ft. Pierre and got it.
NOW FOR THE MOST AMAZING EXPERIENCE YOU COULD IMAGINE. We put the tape in the boom box to play Amazing Grace and the Servant Song that we had sung. All of a sudden John, this person in a coma for 3 days, started mouthing the words to the songs. His expression nor eyes changed, but he was mouthing the words. To see him mouthing "I once was blind, but now I see" was overpowering.
Everyone started singing too with tears running down our faces. His doctor was so overcome that he had to leave the room.
After the singing, each friend said goodbye and told him they loved him.
The last to leave was Judy, the love of his life. As she bent over him, John actually reached out to her and tried to talk. He only made noises, but we knew what he was saying. Judy said, "I know, John. You're saying that you love me. I love you too. I'll be back in the morning."
As soon as Judy left, John was back in a nonresponsive coma as he had been for 3 days. He died during the night with Susie, Mom, Dad, and me holding him. It was an awesome experience and one I wouldn't trade for anything. It is difficult to describe.
I will never again assume that a person in a coma has no knowledge of their surroundings. I was deeply moved by that night in Pierre. Even with John being in a coma, no sight, and no way to communicate with words or gestures, he was able to reach all of us and make a HUGE impact on the lives of all his friends and family that night. His life was still about giving until the very end. His life and being still had meaning until his last breath.
Carol
I thought this was timely for this post. The below is an excerpt from an article on Spiritdaily.com.
....................
24th, 2009 by Dr. Paul Kengor
What if a president, on his own initiative, under no demands from staff or from supporters or opponents, set out to spend an unprecedented amount of money on AIDS in Africa, literally billions of dollars, at a time when the nation could not afford it, citing his faith as a primary motivation and, ultimately, saved more than a million lives?
Wouldn’t the story be front-page news, especially in top, liberal newspapers? Wouldn’t it lead on CNN, MSNBC, and the “CBS Evening News?” Might statues be erected to the man in the nation’s more “progressive” cities?
What if the president was George W. Bush?
I pose these uncomfortable questions for two reasons: 1) President Bush did precisely that regarding the African AIDS tragedy; and 2) a study claims that Bush’s remarkable action has indeed saved many precious lives.
I don't think clumbing Downs people in with those with no brain and no ability to care for themselves or function is fair at all. The woman whose child had no brain should have had an abortion. Having an abortion due to a Downs diagnosis is wrong. Downs people are generally quite capable and able to be self-reliant and often their reliance on others is trained, not essential.
Even tho you are asking good questions that few on your side bother with, you are still perpetuating fear with the use of the 'death panal'term. You know as well as I do that there is no panal, no different way of doing it than is done now. There is a range of services, from a chat wtih your doctor that results in a document about your wishes, to having a home nurse come when your parent is near the end to tell you what to expect in terms of timing and signs and what options are for care giving that will extend or limit life length and what the ramifications are of those options for patient comfort and who will help assess awareness. Right now,some insurance pays for that sort of thing and some doesn't. The plan as written says that those insured under it will have those services paid for. There is no panal. No one tells you how or when you will die. And it is somethng you can choose, not something that you must do. When youo continue to use the term that characterizes it wrongly, you are dishonoring the team that is trying hard to write a good law that will extend insurance to the uninsured.
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