Right now in America one of the major Pentecostal Denominations has changed it's standard for ordination.
If you desired to be ordained in this Pentecostal organization up till very recently one of the requirements is that you would have to be, well, Pentecostal. That would mean you embrace and practice all 9 of the gifts in 1 Corinthians 12. That includes the gateway gift that if you don't practice it, calls into question the function of any of the rest. In other words, if you don't know how to open the door on the car you probably won't be able to drive.
There are "Pentecostal" denominations ordaining ministers who are NOT filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of Speaking in Tongues.
If you don't speak in Tongues, I don't believe you are filled with the Holy Ghost. I don't think you can split out the two like a bad buffet meal. It's part of the package.
I used to believe that in a politically correct way I would answer people who would ask me, "can a person be baptized in the Holy Ghost and not speak in tongues?"
The root of their question was, "I have prayed to receive the Holy Ghost and believe I have, yet I don't speak in Tongues".
I didn't answer as clearly then as I would now. I do NOT believe that a person who is filled with the Holy Ghost as Jesus commanded us to be can be filled and NOT speak in Tongues.
There is no scriptural evidence that anyone after Pentecost in the Bible ever received the Holy Spirit and didn't speak with new Tongues.
Here's the Conclusions I Come To:
- No one should be ordained in a Pentecostal Organization without speaking in Tongues.
- We should quit giving people a pass, when a person really receives the Holy Ghost it so changes their lives they are revolutionized in faith and action, why wouldn't you want to.
- Everyone I have ever known who claimed to be filled with the Holy Ghost but DIDN'T speak in tongues either fell away or struggled in faith to this day.
- Any person who is a minister, elder or leader in any church who is NOT filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Tongues is not truly biblically qualified for the position they hold.
I would enjoy argument, but I suspect I'll get none. You know that according to the word of God all of what I have just said is true. If you are a Pentecostal leader or even a denominational leader and you allow people who are not full of the Spirit of the Living God to stand in leadership you are violating the principles for church leadership as laid out in the Bible.
That is causing all kinds of problems and confusion leading to liberalism, homosexuals in the pulpit, gay marriage and abortion right in the Church of Jesus.
I speak particularly to Pentecostal Leaders. I don't care what the other guys are doing, if you even think about putting anyone in a leadership position, particularly ordaining them, without the fullness of the Gospel, Baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in Tongues you are sinning against the mandates of the Living God.
Repent. Be Baptized in the Holy Ghost!
Or drift into apostasy and lukewarm inert toothless Christianity in name only.
At least take the word Pentecostal out of your mission statement.
9 comments:
Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 13:7-10:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
Paul appears to predict, in about the middle of the 1st century CE, that at some time in his future, people will no longer prophecy or speak in tongues. There appears to be no consensus on when this will (or had) happened:
Pentecostals and Charismatics generally believe that speaking in tongues today is as much a gift of the Holy Spirit as it was during the time of the apostles.
Most non-Pentecostals believe that the various gifts of the spirit, including the gift of tongues, ended with the death of the last apostle.
Who is right and who is wrong?
It's always amusing that people have a reason why what they can't or won't do isn't for them anyway. When I was a kid, if a neighbor had a new bb gun and I didn't I would make some statement like, "he'll just shoot his eye out with it, I don't need a bb gun to have fun". Same as today. People who deny the gift of tongues don't have it and can't get it because they won't press in for it, therefore they make up some foolish translation or interpretation of ONE single passage of the bible that "Proves" tongues are not for today.
It's astounding.
Most of these people are pretty good Bible scholars who would NEVER EVER hang their theological hat on a single scripture. Except when it's the bb gun someone else has.
Here is a long explanation pretty well footnoted by scripture supporting all this. The net is full of them. The word CEASE in 1 Corinthian 13:8 which seems to be the full hope of no glory by my cessasionist brethren might be interpreted in the Greek: Strongs 3973, PANO -- Restrain, Quit, Desist, Refrain from, Leave off From, Stop or Cease. I think Paul was right. It happened. What he doesn't say and what history does, is it started again. People Stopped refraining from, leaving off from, restraining. Hallelujah.
But, I will depend on Midrash a bit for my support. Let's go back to some guys who would have been mid 20's or so. The disciples would have been in their 40s and getting older every day. Paul shows up. It's 15 years after Pentecost. He asks them a key question. Have you received the Holy Ghost and spoken in tongues since you believed? NOPE. So, they did right there and then.
I'm guessing at least some of these guys outlived the last Apostle. John. They would have only been about 70. When John changed worlds did the tongue they had received suddenly evaporate? That's foolish to think so. The Gifts of God are without repentance. Trust me as an old guy, I speak and pray in tongues more NOW than I ever did. Every old saint I know prays more in tounges as he gets older, not less. Most die with the heavenly language on their lips. I will. Wow, I get goosebumps thinking about it. Stepping from time into eternity and starting a sentance on this side of the veil, finishing it there and never having to change my language.
And assuming they had kids and grandkids, which I guessing they did, do you think they spoke to them about the good old days when they could pray in the Holy Spirit but can't anymore? How dumb can you get and still breath. Of course not. In fact, my guess is they said to little Eli and little Ester, "You can have this thing, this wonderful thing I got at the hands of Paul the Apostle too. Come here, let me lay my hands on you, I will impart to you what I possess". I suspect the little pumpkins received and spoke with faith, power and boldness the very word and language of heaven. This glorious thing would have been handed down for a generations until there came a generation that knew not the works of Joseph and his God.
Somehow a few centuries after Pentecost the church, perhaps about the time of the nicea council or constantine, a uniformity and hierarchy began to solidify and tongues which is a great leveler of all believers began to be lost because it became inconvenient. Not cease. Lost because it was taught against and only the most high could speak to God in this language. Mystery. Clergy and laity. Robes and rags. This was never the Father's intention toward his people. Remember while Jesus is the Baptizer in the Spirit, FATHER GOD is the giver of the Gift.
We still have that. In denominational churches Tongues is taught against out of fear that God might say something to or thru someone that might just rattle a theological cage or tip over a denominational sacred cow. So, it's better to keep the people dumb (silent) and ignorant. God WILL hold these misleaders accountable for this if it's done in the knowledge of what they are doing. Some leaders have never seen the truth and walk in darkness on this issue. For that reason they teach things they only partially understand and keep people like children on milk. If that happened in the natural, a 20 year old child still suckling milk they would send the parents to jail.
So, to your question, who is right? You decide. Are you going to hang your hat on ONE verse and miss all God has for you? I hope not.
Or will I hang my hat on one man's opinion of what the Bible says or another's opinion of what it means.
OK, Anonymous,
I'll take you at your word. If you will take your Strong's and look up every single New Testament reference to Speaking in Tongues, The Holy Spirit, The Baptism of the Holy Ghost, The Gifts of the Spirit and being Filled with the Spirit and then ask yourself the question, did this cease or not? What part would you parse out?
The inescapable conclusion I suspect you will come to as I did when I did this is I was lied to.
You said, "Rather than what another person says it means". I'll buy that. Do the work, what does the text say. Dig deep. Come at this like a man from mars. Ignore everything you ever learned from books, denominations, tradition even bible classes.
Be honest with yourself, do you have the courage to really look deep within yourself and deny the Gift of God made available to you?
Why wouldn't you want this? What would happen if you really asked in faith believing that it is for you. What if He really filled you with the Holy Ghost and Power. Wouldn't that be a good thing?
It's like saying, If God wants to save me that's up to him, I'll do nothing about it, he's sovereign and I'll just wait around to see if he decides to or not. There are some Calvinists who believe nearly that.
Ephesian 2
8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
So, if you are such a Bible Follower, why bother? Don't go to church, don't read the Bible, don't pray, don't witness, don't even think about it. You can do nothing about it. You have no part. Hang your hat on some other person's interpretation of the Bible like you have regarding tounges.
The foolishness is in ignoring or denying the gift of God given by Jesus and the Father in salvation or the Holy Ghost? I hope the Holy Spirit will lift the veil of dead religion from your eyes.
Alleged proof for tongue speaking
Acts 1:15ff and Acts 2:1ff.
Pentecostals believe the combination of these two verses prove that the 120 and not the 12 only received the Holy Spirit baptism. And therefore, we can receive it today.
Joel 2:28 This verse is often used to prove that everyone will receive the Holy Spirit Baptism.
Acts 10:1ff This passage is used to prove that all will receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit as Cornelius did.
Titus 3:5 Pentecostals use this verse to teach that one must be baptized in the Holy Spirit, and not only water.
Matt 3:11 Oneness believe that the Baptism of Holy Spirit and fire are the baptism of the Holy Spirit for all believers (Acts 2:1ff).
But consider this
To prove to Pentecostals that the 12 and not the 120 were baptized one need only look no further than Acts 2:43 & 1:13.
A proper understanding of the word flesh will disprove the Pentecostal theory. The word flesh in this context means, “all men, all humanity, or both Jew and Gentile alike.” This found its fulfillment in Acts 2 (Jew) and Acts 10 (Gentile).
See notes above for Acts 10.
The washing of Regeneration can not be the Baptism of the Holy Spirit because the Greek words will not allow it. The Greek word for washing is loutron, which literally means “a bath or laver”. The Word for regeneration literally means, “new birth, or to be born again.” It Titus 3:5 were literally translated it would read “the bath of new birth.” This can only mean baptism (Jn3:5ff). Also, the renewing of the Holy Spirit probably goes in accordance with Eph 5:26 and I Pet 1:23 as the Spirit inspired word washes us and allows us to be born again. Or, it could be speaking of the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38, Eph 1:13-14).
To understand Matt 3:11-12 one must first remember that the baptism of the Holy Spirit did come to pass as promised in Acts 2 & 10. Secondly, the baptism of fire is sadly the only baptism Pentecostals will ever receive. In Matt 3:12 John affirms that the Baptism of fire is the Hell of Separation (Matt 25:31ff).
Wow, That Anon, is the strangest doctrine I have ever heard in my life. Where in the world did that come from?
You have been deeply deceived. I'm not going to argue about it. If you want to call me I'm happy to discuss it. I'm afraid you are too far out in space to even comprehend the truth.
I have to start with your salvation. I'm not certain where you are coming from. Sorry my friend, it's the truth. You need Jesus.
He loves you. You can know him personally. Call me: 800-513-5109
The false doctrine that tongues speaking is for today. The Bible says tongues were a real language (Acts 2:3-11). The Bible says tongues were a sign to the unbelieving Jews (1 Corinthians. 14:21-22).
After Israel rejected God’s sign of tongues and Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 A.D. and the Jews were scattered to the ends of the earth, the need for tongues as a sign was finished. Biblical tongues had to be used according to the teaching of the apostles, yet the Pentecostals and Charismatics do not submit to these restrictions:
(1) Women are not allowed to speak in tongues (1 Corinthians. 14:34)
(2) Tongues were to be spoken only by course (1 Corinthians. 14:27)
(3) Tongues must be interpreted (1 Corinthians. 14:27)
(4) There is to be no confusion (1 Corinthians. 14:33)
(5) Everything is to be decent (1 Corinthians. 14:40)
(6) Everything is to be orderly (1 Corinthians. 14:40)
Tongues were not spoken by every believer even in the days of the apostles (1 Corinthians. 12:28-30).
Biblical tongues were not sought after but were sovereignly given by God (1 Corinthians. 12:11).
There is no instruction in the Bible about HOW to speak in tongues. Those who believe in tongues speaking today claim that they can teach people who to do it.
The Bible says tongues speaking, prophesying, and words of knowing will pass away (1 Corinthians. 13:8). When the New Testament was completed, there was no further need for these particular gifts.
so babble on gleaner
Anon,
I will pray in the Holy Ghost for you. That the eyes of your heart may be enlightened according to Ephesians 1.
Since I don't know you, who you are, I will pray in the Spirit for you. Your name will be brought up on the Tabernacle of David.
Whatever offends us reveals our heart. Your's needs healing.
I won't answer you or argue with you. You are beyond hearing the wooing of the Spirit of God right now.
If anyone reads this, I want you to see how horrible the demon spirit of religion really is.
This poor lost soul needs to find Jesus not religion.
I'm grieved and angry at the demon of religion that puts people like ANON in such bondage and blindness.
This is a lesson for us all.
woowee judge jury and executioner we are
Post a Comment