Tonight I took a friend of mine along to Faith Center. Aaron is the Pastor of the Church in Berwyn we have been working with for a few months. His wife is out of town so he wanted to come with. He's glad he did.
Joyce Still was there ministering. She is a person that operates in words of knowledge and the prophetic . I have seen Joyce many times in action. She's the real deal. She can look at a person and tell them everything going on in their life. Even years ago.
She was doing what she does and during it called Aaron out. She didn't know him from anyone. She then proceeded to tell him what he was doing, what challenges he is facing and to describe details no one except God could have known. That's why I love the Prophetic and the Word of Knowledge as spiritual gifts so much.
We call the having your mail read. It impressed even me. There is little more to this report except this musing; I see Richard Dawkins book God is not Great is on the best seller list.
I have pity for him and those who buy in the whole intentional unbelief agenda. What is even more sad and to be pitied people he convinces. At the other end of the spectrum is a reality in God that staggers the imagination.
I guess it would take Richard Dawkins putting himself in a place where a Joyce Still could just stand there in the power of the Holy Ghost and tell him all kinds of things about himself he didn't think anyone knew for him to be convinced. But, then he would find some reason to poo poo it all anyway. He would be convinced that there was some snake oil in all this.
I know Joyce, I know Faith Center, I know Aaron and I know his situation. Joyce called it perfectly. Aaron has no doubt.
It must be horrible to not have any knowledge of the reality of God.
Or maybe more horrible to live on the edge.
Or horrible to be both.
Cynicism is punishment enough.
14 comments:
Actually it is very liberating to not live in the fear and worry and oppression that you folks do. It frees up a lot of time that we can spend enjoying our families and studying the marvelous details of nature and science. We feel sorry for you people who still beleive in the fairy tale. But except on rare occasions like this, we keep quiet about it and let you have your thing. As silly and pointless as it may be, if it does you good, fine.
Angela, that's silly.
First of all, "you folks." There's your first mistake, a lumping of generic people.
What fear is it that we live in that can't be found, in some fashion, in what you live in?
Really, you have no fear lurking about that can't be tied to what it is you do believe in, whatever that may be?
Only someone who did not believe would think that there was some kind of segmentation of time which prevented believers in God from enjoying families and studying and learning and creating art WHILE AT THE SAME TIME having a belief. These are not like toggle switches, one thing on, one thing off. You have no more time than I for such things.
"We feel sorry for you people."
That's a lot of people you claim to speak for, both the "we" and the "you people."
Perhaps you ought to use some of fear-free and extra time that I apparently don't have and reconsider your take on your own fairy tale.
This was in response to Gene's rather patronizing statement "It must be horrible to not have any knowledge of the reality of God."
As an atheist, it is NOT horrible at all. And to an atheist, God is not a reality, but a cultural invention of humanity. And as I have communicated a great deal with other atheists, we all find it quite liberating to no longer live under the oppression of whatever religion we were raised in. By 'you folks' I do not mean any group other than those like Gene who feel some sort of arrogant pity that we are missing out on something. If you share that feeling that your way is better than ours and that we deserve your pity for what we think of as a freedom from religion, so be it. If you do not share in Gene's view, I appreciate your tolerance. As for family time, study of science, art, and such pursuits, being part of a religious beleif system can be oppressive and restrictive. Being outside of that system does give us more freedom to explore ideas and topics. It also forces us to form our own value system and define our own morality and ethics, which can mean that by chosing and defining, instead of following what is prescribed, atheists end up being some of the most dedicated 'do-gooders'. It is not that we have no limits, but rather that they are self-discovered and chosen, rather than prescibed to us by a religion.
"As for family time, study of science, art, and such pursuits, being part of a religious beleif system can be oppressive and restrictive. Being outside of that system does give us more freedom to explore ideas and topics."
I suggest seriously rethinking this concept. No one is ever outside of a system. Being outside of a God-based system does not mean you are not part of another construct that in some way -- even if you are not aware -- "restricts" or colors these areas in your life.
No one is outside of any system. You are merely part of another (which you point out a bit later in your comment), and to think that you are somehow freer than those who are part of a system you are not and therefore do not fully understand exhibits the same arrogance you accuse Gene of.
It is important that you see you are coming off just as arrogant.
How are self-chosen limits less limiting than those "prescribed" by "religion?" Limits are limits. They limit. Period. Yours are just different. That's all.
"It is important that you see you are coming off just as arrogant."
Thank you for making my point. Apparently I am content enough within my 'system' - without a relationship with God - to the point that Gene's pity for me is ill-founded. Of course I am arrogant about my 'system' - I have chosen it so therefore I think it is the best one.
I remember watching a pee-wee football game once…it was the age where the players are tiny, most of them have no idea what they are doing–and the coach actually is with them on the field during the game.
The game I was watching was between a yellow team (the Chargers) and a blue team (the Colts.) The Chargers were getting smashed…and the coach was trying his best–but you could see the frustration all over his face. I remember him getting his team in the huddle one time & saying, “Boys–PLEASE remember that if you see someone wearing the same color jersey as yours–DON’T HIT HIM!”
Now that was pretty funny at the time…but now that I am seeing it in a different light–it’s sad. Let me explain…
I have became seriously disturbed at what I have been observing on the internet lately. There are actually some “Christians” who have established blogs and websites for the purpose of tearing down other Christians and churches. It’s all over the place…and for some reason I don’t think that Jesus is pleased.
Maybe it is because He said in John 13:34-35 that the world will know we are Christians by the fact that we LOVE one another…NOT because we blog against each other. I am becoming more and more sensitive to the fact that the world is watching…and these Christian “watchdog” websites are merely tools of satan to distract a lost world.
The Apostle Paul said in I Corinthians 1:10-12 that divisions among the body are STUPID and that we should not get caught up in ANYONE except Jesus. I think it breaks God’s heart when websites quote John MacArthur, Charles Spurgeon and Rick Warren more than they quote Jesus. Paul is VERY clear in this text that there are different styles of ministry…and that is OK as long as people are being reached for Christ.
The Apostle Paul also said in Philippians 1:15-18 that as long as Christ is preached–who cares about the motives of a person. I have been in the Christian world long enough to know that there are some people who do ministry for the wrong reasons…but as long as Christ as preached then it has been my view that HE is a much better judge than me…and HE can handle HIS business!!! (After all–the church IS HIS!)
And then there is Jesus! John came to him in Luke 9:49-50 and said, “Hey Jesus, we saw a guy casting out demons–but we put a hold on him–we cut the bloggers loose and have given him a slice of old truth! We told him to knock it off because He isn’t one of us–and that means he isn’t doing it the right way!”
And what did Jesus say? “Do not stop him…for whoever is not against you is for you.” In other words–STOP HITTING PEOPLE ON YOUR TEAM!
I’ve got to say it again–according to Scripture God is not pleased when Christians continually attack one another through blogs and then attach His name to it.
I know, I know–some people are wanting to ask, “But what about the false doctrine that exists out there.” HEY–I am ALL FOR confronting false doctrine. If someone says there is another way to heaven other than Christ–attack that doctrine. If someone says the Bible isn’t the word of God–attack that doctrine. If someone says that hell isn’t a literal place–attack that doctrine. If someone says God loves cats–attack that doctrine. (Ok…I had to lighten the mood!)
BUT…I just believe there is a way to attack doctrine without continually attacking a person and tearing them down. According to Proverbs 6:16-19–God HATES a man who does this–wow, pretty strong language.
One more thing…
In my years as a Christ follower I have observed something…if someone who is in a church leadership position is sinning, teaching false doctrine, stealing money…or WHATEVER else church leaders do…then God will handle it. The Bible is clear in Hebrews 12:5-11 that God KNOWS how to discipline His children…and for some reason I don’t think that His discipline will be through blogging.
Do I think Christian leaders should be confronted? ABSOLUTELY…but there’s this dude named Jesus who gave some instructions about this in Matthew 18:15-17 and I Timothy 5:19. This should be done in love…AND with the purpose of restoring the person if they are wrong. The Bible NEVER approves of someone causing disunity among believers.
I often think about what might happen if the energy that Christians use fighting against each other were actually focused on our real enemy–satan. Paul tells us in Ephesians 6:12 that our struggle is not against flesh and blood…OR against people who do not think exactly like us!!!
We need to face the facts that there is a real Jesus, a real devil, a real heaven, a real hell…and people go to that real hell if they don’t meet Jesus. And NO ONE is going to meet Christ as a result of some bitter, self righteous Christian who is pissed off at another Christian or ministry because they are not doing things the way they think they should be done.
Lets put our focus on the REAL enemy and do all that we can to destroy HIS work instead of destroying one another.
"I have chosen it so therefore I think it is the best one."
And thank you for making my point.
You said in your second comment: "If you share that feeling that your way is better than ours and that we deserve your pity for what we think of as a freedom from religion, so be it."
And you just said you think your way best. You say the arrogance of "my belief is best" proves your point. Who is calling out who, here?
Gene's "problem" is the same as yours, just different gods, is all.
It's amazingly liberating to have the belief in not only God, but in Jesus Christ, that I have, free of true and deep fear. Maybe I've chosen it, maybe it chose me -- either way, I know it is the best belief. That's why I believe it. And on that note, we've drawn a full circle.
Too bad for you and many others who don't really check out some stuff @ Faith Center. Leaders who refer to fasle prophet Kim Clement. W/ Statements @ FC such as: Jesus Christ submitted to demons, Christ is not at the right hand of God but in another part of heaven, it's OK to prophesy even if you are wrong, and many more. Perhaps you and others should be more discerning before bringing people to FC so they can be led astray just like you!
i want to thank you first of all im against the devil and i dont think much of so called men and women that allow sin and drama in GODS house just to make it in the arena of chrisianity we dont see all that mess in positive thinking and we dont need baby food when i was a child i spake as a child but now i can hear from GOD myself from genesis to revelaion with nothing missing and nothing brokenin the catholic faith and also we dont want another falling just because it sounds like looks like and feels right im not impressed anymore about her im impressed when souls repent and stay right with GOD
Everyone has their own opinion. Joyce still has been blessed with a gift. God really works through her. All you none believers need to attend one of her revivals. Joyce Still keep letting god use you to preach and teach! You are truly a gift from god. God bless you!!!!!
Julie, it seems from what you said to Julie about every one being in *some* system:
"I suggest seriously rethinking this concept. No one is ever outside of a system."
that you believed Angela to be claiming to not belong to any system. I did not get that sense at all since she said:
"...being part of a religious beleif [sic] system can be oppressive and restrictive. Being outside of that system..."
She merely claimed to be out of "that system", likely referring to "religious belief system", since that is in the previous sentence.
The only thing that limits, in truth, is reality. Beliefs are not limiting, but unless they are limited to what is known, and not speculations and theories that become dogmatic, they will sometimes cause the believer to be proven wrong.
There is nothing wrong with belief. Indeed, it is necessary, or else there is no progress. This is true for science (where scientists speculate and make hypotheses), and it is true for life in general: if we don't believe in something "good", whether we call it the conscious universe or God, or random chance ("good luck"), then will not have the spiritual ("life-ical"), mental, or emotional energy to enjoy the beauty that is LIVING.
Even in Christianity, that is the end game, for Jesus said he came to give life, and it give it more abundantly.
Therefore, that which is most life-sustaining is most Godly, for each of us. =] Assuming one believes in God.... and belief is not necessary. What is, is, regardless of the belief of a mind; it is merely not visible to one who does not believe.
I would rather be an atheist who demonstrates Godly principles of life in how he treats others, himself, and all life forms, but denies it comes from "God" because he denies there is one, than with one who professes a belief in God but demonstrates ungodly principles in how he treats others, himself, and other life forms.
Julie, it seems from what you said to Julie about every one being in *some* system:
"I suggest seriously rethinking this concept. No one is ever outside of a system."
that you believed Angela to be claiming to not belong to any system. I did not get that sense at all since she said:
"...being part of a religious beleif [sic] system can be oppressive and restrictive. Being outside of that system..."
She merely claimed to be out of "that system", likely referring to "religious belief system", since that is in the previous sentence.
The only thing that limits, in truth, is reality. Beliefs are not limiting, but unless they are limited to what is known, and not speculations and theories that become dogmatic, they will sometimes cause the believer to be proven wrong.
There is nothing wrong with belief. Indeed, it is necessary, or else there is no progress. This is true for science (where scientists speculate and make hypotheses), and it is true for life in general: if we don't believe in something "good", whether we call it the conscious universe or God, or random chance ("good luck"), then will not have the spiritual ("life-ical"), mental, or emotional energy to enjoy the beauty that is LIVING.
Even in Christianity, that is the end game, for Jesus said he came to give life, and it give it more abundantly.
Therefore, that which is most life-sustaining is most Godly, for each of us. =] Assuming one believes in God.... and belief is not necessary. What is, is, regardless of the belief of a mind; it is merely not visible to one who does not believe.
I would rather be with an atheist who demonstrates Godly principles of life in how he treats others, himself, and all life forms, but denies it comes from "God" because he denies there is one, than with one who professes a belief in God but demonstrates ungodly principles in how he treats others, himself, and other life forms.
First, the book "God Is Not Great," was written by Christopher Hitchens; Richard Dawkins wrote "The God Delusion." Second, I do not like the banner, "I Think Therefore I am Not a Democrat." Please do not denigrate one's ability to think on the basis of whether or not they are Democrat or Republican. There is room in this country for both. As for Joyce Still, I saw her a number of years ago at Faith Center and was not impressed. No Scripture was read or preached on, people were called out for personal ministry (which is fine), but the atmosphere that it created was something like Brother Love's Travelling Salvation Show. She left the auditorium before the service was over, greeted no one, and in my mind created an aura of mystery about her and what she was doing. I want to learn how to live for Christ, not attend a sideshow.
I 1st saw joyce at the age of 8 I think.im now 38.what I saw both amazed and frightened me.the physical healings were just amazing...especially 2 an 8 yr old. I was raised in a christian home and had heard of healings but thought they were only in biblical times.joyce had opened my eyes 2 what some1 grounded in their christian beliefs and given the gift of healing by our LORD GOD almighty can do.i have never forgotten joyce and wont till the day I die.i am raising my children in a christian home and am a true testimony 2 what God will do if u believe in him follow him and put absolute trust in him.i am fare from perfect but it is such a content feeling 2 know God is with me every day and when I put my head on my pillow at, if I die in my sleep...I know where im going.praise JESUS...I cannot imagine my life without HIM.
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